Wed 12 June 2013

Fedora 20 elections: FAmSCo townhall logs

Posted by ankur in Tech (3280 words, approximately a 14 minute read)

** Complete logs archived here**

20:01:21 <FranciscoD> #startmeeting Fedora 20 elections: FAmSCo townhall
20:01:21 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jun 11 20:01:21 2013 UTC.  The chair is FranciscoD. Information about MeetBot at
20:01:21 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:01:45 <FranciscoD> #meetingname Fedora 20 elections: FAmSCo townhall
20:01:45 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_20_elections:_famsco_townhall'
20:02:16 <FranciscoD> #topic Reminders and introductions
20:02:22 * FranciscoD pokes zodbot
20:02:46 <FranciscoD> hrm.. weird
20:02:52 * FranciscoD assumes zodbot is logging and proceeds
20:03:14 <FranciscoD> Hi folks. Welcome to the FAmSCo townhall. I'm Ankur and I'll be overseeing the session today.
20:03:35 <FranciscoD> All questions are to be asked in #fedora-townhall-public, and I'll pass them on to the candidates to answer here in #fedora-townhall.
20:03:50 <FranciscoD> (Candidates can also ask questions)
20:04:40 <FranciscoD> Can the candidates please briefly introduce themselves. There's no order to be followed. Please begin when you're ready :)
20:05:05 <LoKoMurdoK> My name is Luis Bazan, I'm Fedora ambassador and mentor since 2011, from Panama
20:05:06 <FranciscoD>
20:05:30 <robyduck> Hi, my name is Robert Mayr and I live in Italy. I'm in the Websites Team, Fedora Ambassador and mentor for EMEA. 8 years ago I also founded the local Italian Fedora community.
20:05:37 <robyduck> eof
20:05:40 <LoKoMurdoK> eof
20:06:36 * FranciscoD waits on cwickert sesivany Wolnei2
20:06:55 <sesivany> hi, my name is Jiri Eischmann and I've been with FAmSCo for the last year and its chair for the last 6 months. I work for Red Hat in Brno, Czech Republic as a community manager .
20:07:19 * FranciscoD notes that Wolnei2 is on his phone and may have connectivity issues
20:07:25 <cwickert> Hi, my name is Christoph Wickert. I am a packager since 2006, ambassador since 2007 and on FAmSCo for a 1,5 years. I also served as FAMsCo chair, before sesivany took over.
20:09:13 <FranciscoD> Okay. Moving on to questions. Please EOF when you're done answering so I can move to the next question
20:09:21 <FranciscoD> #topic Questions and answers
20:09:40 <FranciscoD> j_dulaney asks: What future direction do you see for Fedora ambassadors in terms of highlighting other teams contributions?
20:12:07 <sesivany> well, I think it's one of our tasks to make people attracted to work in Fedora and its teams. And part of it is to explain what the teams are doing and how important it is for Fedora.
20:13:22 <robyduck> I think Ambassador should get more involved in other teams, this would be a plus for the single teams but also for the ambassadors themself, as they probably would remain more active. Ambassadors will know (and also highlight) better the single activities of the teams, which helps them when they are talking at events, for example.
20:13:24 <robyduck> eof
20:13:33 <LoKoMurdoK> I think we need more strength, but the ambassadors Feel That the Contributions In this area are staying weak.
20:13:45 <LoKoMurdoK> But some ambassadors do not know how. And need this guide.
20:14:31 <sesivany> so it should be part of larger effort to get more contributors involved where ambassadors should play an important role. I always say even to ambassador candidates that there are other teams out there and they might want to be active there too.
20:14:49 <LoKoMurdoK> instead of starting as an ambassador may be packager and then ambassador
20:14:50 <sesivany> eof
20:15:03 <FranciscoD> Wolnei2: you're voiced :)
20:15:09 <LoKoMurdoK> and so we have more contribution in other areas.
20:15:10 <LoKoMurdoK> eof
20:16:08 * cwickert still doesn't understand the question
20:16:25 <Wolnei2> I think is ver important the Ambassador project not be a end of contribution
20:16:32 <Wolnei2> And be a door for other projects
20:17:02 <Wolnei2> Eof
20:18:06 <cwickert> I am not sure I understand the question.
20:18:31 <cwickert> Frankly speaking I don't think the ambassadors are to highlight other teams. I mean, highlight them to whom?
20:18:39 <FranciscoD> cwickert: no worries. You can clarify if you need to, or just not answer :)
20:19:12 <cwickert> We highlight other teams all the time, it's almost a natural thing
20:19:36 <cwickert> when somebody asks you what's so cool about Fedora, you point out all the cool teams we have
20:20:13 <cwickert> ideally, we should know them all. On every event, we should have one ambassador, who is also a member of the packagers, the design team, the translators and so on
20:20:24 <cwickert> so we have competent people to answer all questions
20:20:51 <cwickert> this being said, I think that in a perfect world (tm), every ambassadors should be member of at least one other team
20:21:08 <cwickert> if you don't know the community, you cannot represent it
20:21:10 <cwickert> EOF
20:21:31 <FranciscoD> lvaz asks: How do you manage your time currenlty for Fedora duties and how will you do it as a Famsco member?
20:23:28 <sesivany> I'm lucky because my employer is very Fedora-friendly :-) So my boss tolerates my work for Fedora and my day is pretty much mix of my duties in Red Hat and work for Fedora.
20:23:40 <LoKoMurdoK> I had no problems with the time since I started with the community.
20:23:48 <LoKoMurdoK> I contribute to the community and I am satisfied the time put into this work.
20:23:55 <LoKoMurdoK> I think this is in organization. I'll put this a duty to my day to day
20:23:59 <LoKoMurdoK> eof
20:24:20 <robyduck> Well, I'm quiet active in the websites team, but the work there comes more like waves. As ambassador I'm already doing several things, so it wouldn't be so much effort enlarging this activity and dedicate more time to it, because on the other hand I can contribute to get more results for the whole community.
20:24:25 <robyduck> eof
20:24:57 <cwickert> Good question. I know I seem very inactive to many people recently. I often do not manage to attend the IRC meetings any more due to changes in my dayjob. nevertheless I am still a very active ambassador, for example I recently organized LinuxTag, one of the two biggest events here in EMEA. I mostly work on Fedora in my spare time and on the weekends and even if that is not obvious, I can assure you that I am working hard and will continue to do s
20:25:01 <cwickert> EOF
20:25:48 <Wolnei2> In my job i not have acess to Fedora stuff, i spend my holidays and university time to do Fedora stuffs
20:25:53 <sesivany> my workload has been pretty much the same for last year and I've managed to get along well. I missed about three meetings out of 30 in the last term and it was always due to other activities related to Fedora.
20:26:11 <sesivany> eof
20:26:45 <cwickert> sesivany doesn't have a life, he lives in the Red hat office :)
20:27:12 <Wolnei2> Recently we in migration to Fedora OS on my Work
20:27:21 <sesivany> cwickert: yeah, there are days when I open and then close the office :-)
20:27:35 <Wolnei2> Should be more easy get time to Fedora
20:27:36 <LoKoMurdoK> sesivany: :O
20:27:43 <Wolnei2> eof
20:27:56 <FranciscoD> dan408_ asks: How do you actually plan to get ambassadors involved? Have you noticed there are no NA candidates? What do you plan to do about that? And why do you think that is?
20:28:38 <robyduck> 4 questions 1 answer? :)
20:29:12 <FranciscoD> robyduck: interlinked ;)
20:30:14 <robyduck> I've experienced that if there is a well organized local community, there are many users, which means more contributors and therefore also more ambassadors. We should work more on this.
20:30:27 <sesivany> a very good question. While I see increasing activity in other regions, NA seems to have declining activity (from outsider's point of view)...
20:31:25 <sesivany> we had two NA members in FAmSCo until now, and at least herlo was quite active, I don't know their reasons not to candidate again...
20:31:57 * FranciscoD notes that herlo has taken over fama wrangler duties recently
20:32:13 <LoKoMurdoK> We must do our part, new projects that draw people's attention (interesting proyects).
20:32:36 <cwickert> I think the lack of candidates from NA is largely due to personal issues. In the past, NA was always very strong, but seems that things have slowed down a bit recently. I'm afraid there is not much FAmSCo can do about this, it's on the NA ambassadors to change it and of course we will support them whenever they need help, be it budget, logistics or whatever.
20:33:13 <robyduck> It's very sad there are no NA candidates, but IMO we shouldn't ignore this "message". FAmSCo can do much more, also for NA, but as in every region we need fresh ambassadors also in NA.
20:33:23 <sesivany> my feeling is that the NA community has always been a bit Red Hat-centered while communities in other regions started outside Red Hat. So it may lead to a situation when everything stands and falls with redhatters.
20:33:36 <cwickert> For other regions such as APAC, LATAM or even some regions in EMEA, we have improved community presence, so it's not impossible, but for NA I don't really know what the problems are.
20:34:23 <sesivany> FAmSCo may help with advice, but it's always up to local work of devoted ambassadors.
20:35:38 <cwickert> One thing I plan to do is the ambassadors census. We did that in EMEA in the past: We reach out to the leaders of the local communities and ask them, how things are going in their country. Something along the lines of: "How many active people do you have, how many events do you run, how much budget do you need? What problems are you facing and what can we do to help you?" With these answers, we should be able to improve our support.
20:35:39 <robyduck> I feel also FAmNA has lost some of its power recently, but I can see it only from outside. The two things might be connected.
20:36:19 <cwickert> I plan to go to Russia this year. They have an amazing community there, many good ambassadors, but we hardly hear from them. Time to change that. EOF
20:36:20 <LoKoMurdoK> I think this issue is complex and must play carefully for present a idea.
20:36:47 <sesivany> cwickert: yes, and planning is also very important. I recommend a regional FAD focused on planning what activities to do in NA.
20:37:01 <sesivany> eof
20:37:01 <LoKoMurdoK> sesivany: +1
20:37:03 <LoKoMurdoK> eof
20:37:07 <robyduck> eof
20:37:26 * FranciscoD will wait a little for Wolnei
20:38:17 <FranciscoD> Hrm, probably connectivity issues there :/
20:38:41 <FranciscoD> Moving on. Wolnei please continue to answer as you can. Thanks.
20:38:56 <FranciscoD> sergiodj asks: In your opinion, what are the issues you see within your local community, and how do you plan to tackle them?
20:40:33 <sesivany> I think things in EMEA has been improving in the last year or so, but probably the biggest problem, and I think it applies to all regions, is to keep people active.
20:40:52 <sesivany> and not only active, but raise new community leaders there.
20:42:51 <robyduck> That's one of the topics I want to push. Local communities are very important, our users/contributors come from there, mainly. In Italy we had for al long time 2 communities, and that's happening also in other countries actually. If there are more than one in one country we should have some small guidelines of how to manage this.
20:43:30 <sesivany> my resolution for this year was to find new leaders in EMEA who would lead their national or local communities and take an active role in the regional community. And I think we have several promising ambassadors, but it's too early to say if we've been successful.
20:43:47 <LoKoMurdoK> Ok we need to do more events (constantly) I think they have been few  to the community. We need to make FADs and other to attention grabbing some more. taking into account that the fedora community is well organized.
20:44:41 <FranciscoD> Wolnei: current question -> sergiodj asks: In your opinion, what are the issues you see within your local community, and how do you plan to tackle them?
20:45:24 <sesivany> long story short: people are the key, if you have devoted, enthusiastic, and motivated people, you can overcome any other problem.
20:45:27 <sesivany> eof
20:45:48 <Wolnei> In my local we have war for bigger events, every year
20:46:38 <Wolnei> And a confused definition of active ambassador
20:46:41 <robyduck> It would be nice to have a community site, which contains also the smaller local events, the big events (Flock) and who is the leader of the single local team. A lot of work, ok, but I think we could manage better also the events part.
20:47:14 <robyduck> eof
20:47:14 <Wolnei> My plan is more rotation in national and latam events
20:47:20 <sesivany> one more thing...
20:47:30 <LoKoMurdoK> The community has other problems, to solve this we need a great job and first recognize where is the root of the problem to cut it.
20:47:44 <cwickert> I think we are doing good in EMEA overall. We have good events, enough people and are very active in general. One thing that concerns me are how events are nowadays. Technical conferences are well attended and get more professional, but exhibitions, the events where ambassadors are going to represent Fedora, are going down. Less visitors and it's little to see. It's just boring to show two laptops with the latest Fedora. We need to think about new
20:48:12 <LoKoMurdoK> nobody said it would be easy but it must be done.
20:48:13 <LoKoMurdoK> eof
20:48:26 <cwickert> For the beginners, we need something more playful like the fedora photo booth. Something interactive where people can play. And for the professionals, we should go and attend their conferences. Go to PyCon and tell people why Fedora is cool for developing python.
20:48:36 <cwickert> and last but not least: Do more FADs
20:48:40 <Wolnei> And be more closure the needes of new and old ambassadors
20:49:04 <cwickert> But I mean real Fedora Activity Days. One problem, one weekend, go fix it!
20:49:06 <cwickert> EOF
20:49:15 <robyduck> cwickert: FAD +1
20:49:17 <Wolnei> To together do what we need to make all happy to continue to give time to fedora
20:49:23 <Wolnei> eof
20:49:25 <sesivany> one concrete thing we're trying to implement in EMEA: it's kind of peer program. Now, new ambassadors are left in vacuum after they finish the mentorship. We want to make sure there is someone who makes sure that they settle in the community, attend at least one bigger event to meet other contributors, have some agenda what to do in their first year.
20:50:26 <sesivany> I've been doing it with several new ambassadors and it's proved to be really good because they all remain active.
20:50:28 <sesivany> eof
20:50:40 <FranciscoD> lvaz asks: If you could change anything in current Fedora Ambassadors Project what would it be? Why?
20:50:44 <Wolnei> I agreed with sesivany
20:52:51 * FranciscoD notes that this will probably be the last question for this session
20:53:23 <FranciscoD> (before I request candidates for their concluding comments)
20:55:46 <sesivany> lvaz: that's a though one... if you mean any big changes in design, I don't know. There have been suggestions to adopt national LoCo teams as Ubuntu has. Although I do support national communities if they have enough members, I think the regions are a good size for our communities. What I like about FAm is that in regions we really cooperate, people from different countries, cultures,... while LoCo teams in Ubuntu are quite
20:55:48 <sesivany> isolated.
20:57:48 <cwickert> I would give us more budget. Obvious, isn't it? ;-) It's not just that we can run more events and do more stuff with more money, but also that we have more participation. Since budget planning was handed over from Red Hat to FAmSCo and we handed it over to the regional communities, participation has improved a lot. People start thinking about all the cool things that could do with sufficient financial backup. I'm not saying, we should throw tons o
20:57:51 <cwickert> EOF
20:58:10 <robyduck> I think the Ambassadors Group is one of those groups which is already well organized. The wiki is clear, meetings are held regularly and useful for all. We can always improve, sure, for example we could find a way to re-activate "sleeping" ambassadors, try to pull them in other teams or simply create local events to let them re-fall in love with Fedora.
20:58:16 <sesivany> I think we've already made a big change when we transferred a lot of power and responsibility to regions, closer to contributors. I think our immediate goal should be to make sure that it works well, or regions cope with the new situation well etc.
21:00:31 <robyduck> Regions are doing a great job, now we could try to give some responsabilities to 1-2 local ambassadors of every country, means less work for the Region and a more capillarized work.
21:01:39 <robyduck> but all this improvements can only be done if we first consolidate the recent changes, which were big changes and very useful.
21:02:00 <sesivany> my vision of Fedora Ambassadors Project is strong regions where people actively cooperate and FAmSCo as gluing body where we exchange experience from regions, help out regions and ensure inter-regional cooperation.
21:02:15 <robyduck> eof
21:02:20 <sesivany> eof
21:02:39 * FranciscoD waits on Wolnei
21:02:49 <FranciscoD> LokoMurdoK seems to have lost connectivity
21:02:56 <Wolnei> I my opinion we need to be more closure of ambassadors
21:03:37 * LoKoMurdoK sorry
21:03:39 <Wolnei> And tobdo that we need the Ambassador project have some "tutorials"
21:03:58 <Wolnei> To guide new people in the right patch
21:04:20 <Wolnei> And be watching by the people inside
21:04:34 <Wolnei> One thing we beed more
21:05:01 <Wolnei> Need more was the all people submit their sucess case
21:05:23 <LoKoMurdoK> FranciscoD: the question is? (lvaz question?)
21:05:24 <Wolnei> Local to be reproduced in other places in the world
21:05:36 <FranciscoD> LoKoMurdoK: lvaz asks: If you could change anything in current Fedora Ambassadors Project what would it be? Why?
21:05:46 <Wolnei> eof
21:05:55 <LoKoMurdoK> FranciscoD: ok
21:06:00 <LoKoMurdoK> tks
21:06:40 <LoKoMurdoK> lvaz: I think we should work on a real consensus in regions and debug many ambassadors who are but not.
21:06:56 <LoKoMurdoK> the inactive list is big
21:07:46 <LoKoMurdoK> I think we need to do this to have a real number of collaborators and start from there.
21:08:59 <LoKoMurdoK> and between regions (all), we need more communication. thats all
21:09:00 <LoKoMurdoK> eof
21:09:31 <FranciscoD> That's all the questions and answers we have time for today.
21:09:37 <FranciscoD> #topic Concluding remarks
21:09:56 <FranciscoD> Please make your concluding remarks, and I'll close the session :)
21:10:50 <LoKoMurdoK> You have the choice. please vote!
21:12:01 <sesivany> I'd like to thank FranciscoD for organizing all this. You literally make the elections! And also all FAmSCo candidates that they've decided to candidate. FAmSCo needs you!
21:12:54 <robyduck> Well this was my first townhall :) thanks to all for the good and tricky questions. FranciscoD you did a great job, not only this evening, all the planning! Thanks!
21:14:59 <cwickert> Thanks everybody, especially FranciscoD for hosting this session. I'd like to get reelected, to finish the budget stuff. We are in transition, we have changed and improved a lot, but it's still a bit messy. Let's clean up the mess and continue our work. Less red tape and more power to the local communities and ambassadors. Go vote!
21:15:01 <cwickert> EOF
21:16:02 <FranciscoD> Wolnei: we're waiting for your closing remarks :)
21:16:22 <Wolnei> Eof
21:16:23 <LoKoMurdoK> thanks FranciscoD for all, and all who were in this session
21:16:26 <LoKoMurdoK> bless
21:16:29 <LoKoMurdoK> and regards!
21:16:32 <LoKoMurdoK> vote!
21:16:33 <LoKoMurdoK> eof
21:16:59 <FranciscoD> Thank you everyone for coming. It's a pleasure to manage the community elections :)
21:17:13 <FranciscoD> I wish you all the best of luck. May the votes be with you ;)
21:17:17 <FranciscoD> #endmeeting